[Daanz-dip] Online Dip / Anzac Cup

Wed Sep 10 15:11:44 EST 2008

I find in the ANZAC cup games not so much a mentality of "i know this guy
therefore i will ally him" but more the early game is really really
important, generally everyone will circle like vultures on the first 2 or 3
people to go down, so at the first sign of weakness you will find all your
neighbours pouring over you like ants and it is very hard to talk your way
out of it... in owls open games this doesn't happen as much and you are
ussually able to talk your way out in some way...

On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 9:25 PM, Thorin Munro <thorinmunro at hotmail.com>wrote:

>  Just want to respond briefly to Doug M and Goffy re email Dip....
>
> To be blunt, the success or not in an email game really comes down to a
> couple of simple factors. [Particularly when the players are anonymous.]
>
> 1. The need to write LOTS of press to other players. A couple of messages
> to a few of the other players will NOT get you far. In games with 2-3 day
> deadlines you really need to write to every player each season, and often
> multiple times per day, to be in the league of the top players. If you
> aren't able to or don't want to write that volume of press, then high level
> success in online games will elude you.... AND then quality of your press
> matters on top of this volume. Roleplaying, humour, current affairs etc even
> become a factors.... in building relationships (which is the point).
>
> 2. The need to REALLY NEGOTIATE. Maybe no different to FTF play. But online
> there is a lot more time to craft deep and complex plans and alliances. Good
> players do it using very flexible and creative thinking. They look for
> genuine win/win plans. Are often willing to make short term sacrifices /
> investments.  Cheap or simplistic negotiations simply won't cut it at the
> higher levels of play. Hence repeating the need for lots of communication.
>
> 3. Something about the ability to play and think LONG TERM. Alliances and
> trust, key SC's, stalemate lines, the flow of games, the nature and health
> of relations that have developed etc etc. Playing online gives you a chance
> to really explore and gain a FEEL for these elements. And then FTF you have
> to start to do this real-time....
>
> There's probably more. I don't believe the 'problem' in the Anzac Cup is
> that players recognise and ally with each other to wipe out other players to
> any great extent. Look closely at the players in each game and the play and
> results of the games. I haven't seen it. Not to mention you are insulting
> the other players with the 'unsubstantiated' accusation.... and even if
> people are, well then the challenge is how do you get over the top of them?
> [GOTO to 1, 2 and 3]
>
> It's wise to mask 'tells' if you think it's an issue.
>
> But my challenge, particularly to you Doug, as you started the post (AND
> are about to step into the BIG LEAGUE of online Diplomacy in the Finals of
> the Diplomacy World Cup) is to reflect on how well you are playing the game.
> Honestly. Blaming marginal results on 'collusion' by others is, I think,
> simply blocking you from making a truer assessment of your real development
> needs as a player. As I haven't played against / with you, I can't offer
> much more than this....
>
> But start to ask yourself:
> How regularly do I write? What is the quality of my press?
> Are there any patterns in my results?
> What feedback have I had from other players?
> What are the substance and quality of my negotiations?
> How good am I at building trust?
> Am I too aggressive or passive or trusting or ...?
> How do I react under pressure? How tenacious?
> What sort of ally am I? Do I have longer term views?
> Have you asked other players how they get their results?
>
> And the list goes on. I would be happy to take this discussion off-line if
> you like, yet everyone probably gains from a discussion like this. Offered
> in the spirit improvement.
>
> Cheers to Doug & Goffy and all,
>
> Thorin
>
>
> ------------------------------
> From: dougmelville at hotmail.com
> To: daanz-dip at daanz.org.au
> Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 11:54:23 +1000
> Subject: Re: [Daanz-dip] Fw: Recruiting at FtF events.
>
> IMHO - no, players identify themselves by their communication
> style/context/content.
>
> Players who (clearly) are well known locally and have played together for
> many years, are I am sure  readily identifiable to those who know them
> well.  (which isn't me me! ;-)
>
> regards
>
> Doug
>
> ------------------------------
> From: billbrown499 at hotmail.com
> To: daanz-dip at daanz.org.au
> Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 10:41:52 +1000
> Subject: Re: [Daanz-dip] Fw: Recruiting at FtF events.
>
> Hi,
>
> But with the Anzac Cup being anonymous, doesn't that prevent such play and
> allow players to be judged on their merits, rather than their contacts or
> reputation?
>
> Cheers
> Bill
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: dougmelville at hotmail.com
> To: daanz-dip at daanz.org.au
> Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 10:38:24 +1000
> Subject: Re: [Daanz-dip] Fw: Recruiting at FtF events.
>
>
> What I find endlessly tedious is the good players who have 'friends' and
> combine to kick the new guy.. whose qualities as a dip player are unknown,
> but he just doesn't know any of these blokes. The 'gang' mentality. No
> wonder people don't want to play.
>
> It's part of the reason i find the anzac cup frustrating.
>
> D.
>
>
>
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