[Daanz-dip] In response to Doug
Shane Cubis
shane at cubisia.com
Wed Sep 13 12:16:23 EST 2006
I think the Bismark thing is a fair point - I propose Gongcon be affiliated
for Masterpoints but not Bismark. There's a precedent for that.
Shane
On Wed, 13 Sep 2006 11:57:47 +1000, Sean Colman wrote
> We currently have tournaments at Pubs & Clubs, which are licensed
> Premises, and do not have the restriction Greg is putting on under
> 16's. Surely it is a Parental Decision to have their children play
> at such a tournament where there is alcohol served. A tournament
> that specifically excludes certain players will result in positional
> changes in the Bismark Cup and further deny these players of a
> chance to improve their master point ranking. I also note that there
> have been more than 10 players under the age of 16 that have played
> in at least one tournament this year. Some have played more, some
> are even in the top in the Bismark Cup.
>
> So the next tournament won't allowed Blonde Haired, Blue Eyed people?
> Women won't be allowed?
> What if they are over 50?
>
> Your proposal to exclude anyone from coming along and playing a game
> they enjoy actually sickens me.
>
> If you want to have a couple of social games of diplomacy with your
> mates, and a boozey weekend, then why does it need affilliation?
>
> Sean
>
> .----- Original Message -----
> From: "William J Brown" <billious at rabbit.com.au>
> To: <daanz-dip at daanz.org.au>
> Cc: <Greg at cyberelectric.net.au>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 11:42 AM
> Subject: Re: [Daanz-dip] In response to Doug
>
> > Well said Greg.
> >
> > I agree that we should try to provide a range of tourney types (my
> > position on scorng systems is the same), I understand the need for age
> > limit restrictions where alcohol is involved and providing an
opportunity
> > to play other games after Dip is no different to other tourneys where
> > we've played board games or people have gone out together to pubs and
> > clubs etc.
> >
> > I hope GONCON is fun and a success. You should be thanked for providing
> > your own place for the get together.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Bill
> > ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
> > From: "Greg Evans" <Greg at cyberelectric.net.au>
> > Reply-To: Greg at cyberelectric.net.au,DAANZ-dip Email Discussion Group for
> > Diplomacy in Australia & NewZealand <daanz-dip at daanz.org.au>
> > Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 10:52:06 +1000
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>Doug,
> >>
> >>Thanks for your comments. You have raised some valid issues, though I
am
> >>dissappointed to see you urging the DAANZ committee to reject my GongCon
> >>proposal.
> >>
> >>I am not trying to split the hobby at all. I am trying to grow the
hobby
> >>through diversification. We need to try new things and appeal to
> >>differrent types of people if we are going to go forward. I am not
trying
> >>to force my ideals of how to run a tournament on others, I am just
trying
> >>to offer an alternative. To my mind, if every tournament ran with a
> >>differrent format, differrent theme and differrent scoring system then
> >>we'd have more fresh ideas and more of an idea about what works and what
> >>doesnt. People can go to the tourneys they like, and pass on the ones
> >>they dont like. Give them the choice and let them vote with bums on
> >>seats.
> >>GongCon might not be everyones 'cup of tea' but that does not make it
> >>invalid. The DAANZ committee needs to represent EVERYONE in the hobby,
> >>not just those who prefer tournaments run a specific way.
> >>
> >>* Poker
> >>The poker tournament was included for a couple of valid reasons :-
> >>
> >>1. Recruitment - At the NSW Champs 2005, we fired up a game of Texas
> >>Hold'em and a fair number of dippers present were very enthused. I
> >>figured that if Dip players showed interest in Poker, then it might be
the
> >>case that Poker players might show interest in Dip. There are certainly
a
> >>lot of Poker players doing the rounds these days - its become a bit of a
> >>craze.
> >>
> >>2. Time Limitations - GongCon is limited in many respects by the fact
> >>that it has only ever been held on a 2-day weekend. To hold a 3-round
> >>tournament therefore means you need to implement a short timedraw (which
> >>many players hate), play the 2nd game well into the night on the
Saturday
> >>(which is bad for travellers and younger players) and/or split the 2nd
> >>round over Sat/Sun (which has major problems if players - particularly
new
> >>players - have only come for one day).
> >>Many players like the 'long game' version where scoring is SC based and
> >>games are given a long time to reach conclusion. The 'short game' is
> >>being given a fair run by others with C-Diplo, which some people like,
but
> >>its not for everyone and once again I want to offer an alternative. I
am
> >>implementing a weighted game scoring system to make up for the fact we
> >>only have 2 rounds so as to keep the tournament as dynamic as possible.
> >>A poker tournament (which may only run for an hour or two) is a lot less
> >>time committment, so it allows Round 1 to run for longer and fills any
> >>small perceived gap. You could NOT fit another full round of Dip in
that
> >>space.
> >>It is also worth noting that most tournaments I've been to do NOT run
into
> >>the night anyway - I do not recall ever having a 'dinner turn' during a
> >>game of Tournament Dip. The kids often have to be home for dinner or
> >>people have planes to catch.
> >>
> >>* Age Restrictions
> >>Possibly a more controversial issue, but an important one.
> >>The introduction of age restrictions to this tournament is more to do
with
> >>the alcohol than anything. The poker tournament is technically NOT
> >>gambling. It is a competition, with an entry fee, for which there is a
> >>prize for winning. Sound familiar ?
> >>Call me old fashioned, but I dont believe that kids should be present at
> >>adult parties where people may become intoxicated. It sets a bad
example
> >>and there are too many things that can go wrong. Clubs and pubs have
age
> >>restrictions for a reason !
> >>Once again, there may be people who are interested in coming to a fun
> >>Party, or BBQ for a few beers who might be favourably exposed to Dip and
> >>get involved (how many times have you seen people show interest when we
> >>play at club venues ?). These same people might not be interested in a
> >>dry event where they can hang out with 12 year olds. Its about
diversity
> >>and broadening the appeal of dip through differrent styles.
> >>Though it was only a secondary motivation, it is true that there was
> >>controversy at the last GongCon because of the kids and some people have
> >>said they are not interested in playing if the hobby is going to be
> >>overrun by kids. Are these people wrong ? Is their preference
invalid ?
> >>Shouldnt there be an opportunity for those people to play Dip the way
they
> >>want to within the DAANZ ? Or are we all expected to toe the party line
> >>and there is only one correct way ?
> >>Personally, I feel like a paedophile when I'm trying to cajole some
young
> >>12 year old boy into doing what I want in a game of Dip. I'd probably
do
> >>better if I brought along a bag of boiled lollies for such intimate
> >>moments....
> >>I know that many in the hobby dont have such morality issues, but I do.
I
> >>think it sets a bad example to young kids to see adults lying, even
> >>cheating to get what they want. It teaches them dangerous skills at a
> >>formative age where they may not be able to draw the line between game
> >>behaviour and real life behaviour. Once again though, I am not trying
to
> >>force this on other tournaments, I'm just offerring an alternative for
> >>people who think/feel like I do.
> >>There are also minor issues of competancy, game quality and
manipulation.
> >>We can all claim that kids need some 'guidance' to learn the game and
> >>should be encouraged as they are the 'future' of the hobby. Along this
> >>line I should bring along my neice to ADC. She's very interested,
though
> >>only learning the game. I'll need to give her a little bit of help and
I
> >>will assist her in writing her orders. Thats all well and good isnt
it ?
> >>Oh, I forgot to mention.....my neice is 5 months old.
> >>In all seriousness, we need to draw the line somewhere. Obviously we
are
> >>not going to agree about where exactly that line should exist (Age 6 ?
Age
> >>12 ? Age 16 ?) but that doesnt mean I can't have an opinion on the
subject
> >>and run GongCon accordingly.
> >>
> >>I'm not asking much of the DAANZ. I'm planning to run this tournament
at
> >>a personal loss and I expect no help at all in running, nor promoting
the
> >>event. The only thing I'm asking is that you SCORE it. Some people are
> >>motivated to come to tournaments by the Bismark (particularly
> >>inter-staters). Those handful of people might be the differrence
between
> >>the success and failure of this tournament - I believe it has helped the
> >>ANZAC Cup get off the ground. Dont handicapp me before I've had a
chance
> >>to get started.
> >>
> >>In conclusion, I think its important to grow the hobby and this proposal
> >>for GongCon is designed for that purpose. It just involves growing it
in
> >>a differrent direction to others.
> >>We have already lost our Canberra tournaments, the NSW Champs is
currently
> >>homeless and in doubt for 2007 while GongCon is on the verge of
> >>extinction. I am seriously looking at the landscape and would not be
> >>surprised if there isnt a tournament within 6 hours drive for me in 2007
> >>if we keep tearing our tournaments down.
> >>
> >>The ADC / Albury proposal is worth a try, but lets not put all our eggs
in
> >>one basket.
> >>
> >>Sincerely,
> >>Greg
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Daanz-dip mailing list
> > Daanz-dip at daanz.org.au
> > http://www.daanz.org.au/mailman/listinfo/daanz-dip
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Daanz-dip mailing list
> Daanz-dip at daanz.org.au
> http://www.daanz.org.au/mailman/listinfo/daanz-dip
--
Shane Cubis
Australian Legend
More information about the Daanz-dip
mailing list